Bye-bye eBikes

[Scary Harry]

My Surron eBike (electric motorcycle) has died. I traced down the problem to the controller module that converts DC battery power to sine wave AC for the brushless motor. Hoping to find a replacement part I discover the parts are sold out. Can't even replace the battery anymore. They have an option to be notified when parts are available. I waited and waited, and finally contacted the only dealer in the US and I am informed that they will never be available. They no longer are a dealer for that brand.

Well, excuse me, then why do they have a waiting list? They do have some parts in stock, but they amount to wheels and bearings, and throttle control that are not much help to get the motor going again.

This leaves a really bad taste in my mouth as far as eBiking goes. If there is no long term support for critical parts, then I'm inclined to believe that this market will not survive the long term. Gee, they have other eBikes for sale. I wonder how long that market will last when they can no longer get critical parts? These critical parts are VERY VERY expensive as well, like half the price of the eBike. I get the feeling they don't want to maintain an inventory, but instead, they want you to just buy the next version of eBike.

I could be wrong here, but, I now no longer am interested in this form of transportation. The C10 and C14 are going to be around for a long long time in my opinion cause parts are still available from what I have seen.

The controller module is not serviceable. I tried to open it up to see if it was a simple cold solder connection. Nope, it's all potted in. Can't even swap out a capacitor or connector if needed. Built to be water tight. Is this the future, throw away eBikes or eMotorcycles?

I can rant on all night about this I suppose. The eBike was fun while it lasted, but I see no point in replacing it.

The battery is still good. Maybe I can use it to power a light when the grid drops the load.

Buyer beware.

 

[Jorge]

Harry, be careful with the battery. Do you know the voltage?
Remember you can't turn a battery off like you can a generator.

 

[Scary Harry]

Harry, be careful with the battery. Do you know the voltage?
Remember you can't turn a battery off like you can a generator.

Oh-yeah...it packs a wallop. The bike has a converter to drive the headlamp, so worst case, I have an expensive utility light. I'm exploring other options as well.

 

[connie_rider]

Sorry to hear this Harry.

 

[Bud]

I feel your pain Harry. The newest vehicle I have is 11 years old. The oldest is 42. My toaster is about 60. You could say that I don't believe in, or care for, our throw away society. There's nothing green about it. Instead of valuing quality, we value cheap. When we outsourced our production capabilities to China, which relies on cheap or slave labor, the problem was exacerbated. Another driver of this is the rapid evolution of technology. When the product fails, the next version has more features and a warranty so why even think about repairing anything. We're also seeing things being built that are so complex, getting them repaired is a problem because we don't have techs with the ability to fix them. Ask Ted about his previous F150 and the fancy transmission Ford couldn't figure out how to make function properly. Manufacturers have the knowledge to build quality products that are designed to be purchased once and maintained with the support of the manufacturer, for the long haul. Unfortunately that philosophy seems to have fallen from favor by the powers that be. I would really like to see this all reversed before I bite the dust. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Murph]

If there is no long term support for critical parts, then I'm inclined to believe that this market will not survive the long term.

What that does is generate a new business opportunity for someone else.

 

[fartymarty]

I may have this wrong, but aren't there after market controllers available? Not cheap though.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sur...UKEwiPh4X_8N6JAxWp6ckDHS3CIUcQip4GKAF6BAgDEDQ

 

[Scary Harry]

I may have this wrong, but aren't there after market controllers available? Not cheap though.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sur...UKEwiPh4X_8N6JAxWp6ckDHS3CIUcQip4GKAF6BAgDEDQ

Yes, and yes.

For the average Joe who can't turn a wrench, it will take a lot of courage to adapt an after market black box to these bikes. It must be a perfect fit and the electrical specs MUST match. Volts, Amps, what's them things? Throttle is electronic (fly by wire). Change and adjust a proximity sensor? Regenerative braking needs to be reprogrammed?

It would have to be a labor of love with deep pockets. I didn't want to start a new hobby.

Oh well, it's on the back burner until I can locate all the specs, manuals, and see what needs to be modified mechanically and electrically.

 

[Murph]

mechanically and electrically.

It still has pedals doesn't it?...
....Yer happy feet will get ya where you need to go..
..we don't need no stinkin' battery,,, gasoline......no nothin'

I guess technically its no longer an eBike....

 

[Scary Harry]

It still has pedals doesn't it?...
....Yer happy feet will get ya where you need to go..
..we don't need no stinkin' battery,,, gasoline......no nothin'

I guess technically its no longer an eBike....

No, it does not have pedals. This is a true off road dirt e-motorcycle. This sucker has power and can really move. I use it to check my property and fetch mail from my mail box a mile away. Want to do a flip? toggle a power switch so you can do some serious hill climbing. This is not a kids e-bike with peddles. It's default max speed is 30MPH, but you can bypass that if you want to drain your battery faster. It has big knobby tires meant for dirt trail and racing.

I can fix it, but I will need to modify some hardware to mount non-OEM replacement parts. I may have to upgrade the throttle control, sensors, and wire connectors. The trick will be to get the controller as close as possible to the motor with the supplied wires. There are some kits available that supply new throttle control and electronic speedometers and programming switches to configure settings to ease the upgrade pain. My failed controller is programmable by squeezing and releasing the brake lever to create a pattern of on/off signals.

The pros race these things on dirt courses just like the gas versions. You can easily swap the batteries by throwing a circuit breaker and yanking out the battery and throw in a fresh one.

 

[Murph]

The pros race these things on dirt courses

I looked at some racing dirt Ebikes a few months ago and they started at 10K Only ebikes around here are old folks doing some backroad cruising .

Besides, yer in Wyoming ..you're suppose to use your horse for getting the mail and checking the spread..

 

[Scary Harry]

Ebikes a few months ago and they started at 10K

My price was pre-covid and much less expensive at the time.

Wyoming ..you're suppose to use your horse for getting the mail and checking the spread.

Some ranchers use helicopters, bush planes, or drones. They only use horses where the 4X4 can't get to for fence repairs or rounding up the herds.

 

[Murph]

They only use horses where the 4X4 can't get to for fence repairs or rounding up the herds.

Say it aint so.........

Some ranchers use helicopters, bush planes,

Now we're talking....
....get one of those....
..

 

[freebird6]

Just curious on the speed of those E bikes.

Our rails-to-trails specifically says "no motorized vehicles," yet I see E bikes booking way faster than the traffic they are passing on the trail.

Seems that the folks taking higher speed on them are loosely playing with fire

Read a editorial in the 1980s on speed that showed the NTSB sets limits 7-12 mph too low. THe line I remember is "speed does not kill. Speed differentials kill" Seems like that applies here.

 

[fartymarty]

Just curious on the speed of those E bikes.

Our rails-to-trails specifically says "no motorized vehicles," yet I see E bikes booking way faster than the traffic they are passing on the trail.

We might be mixing apples and oranges here, I don't think e-bikes (aka electrically assisted bicycles) will be going away any time soon. Not Street Legal Electric motorcycles (aka: Surron for one) on the other hand, might be in trouble judging by Harry's experience.
However, e-Bikes might start getting extra legislative scrutiny as they grow more popular and annoying to the general public.
There are some that add pedals to their NSL electric motorcycles in an effort to disguise what they really are and appear to be/or actually become street legal, to the detriment of real e-Bikes.

As for speeds, stock e-Bikes are usually no faster than 28 mph on flat terrain, and stock unmodified NSL Electric Motorcycles are maxed out in the low 40s.

Read a editorial in the 1980s on speed that showed the NTSB sets limits 7-12 mph too low.

As for the NTSB setting speed limits, I'm pretty sure that they only investigate accidents and make recommendations. The states are responsible
for setting speed limits in most instances. (the Feds can of course, like they did the '70s with the 55 mph national speed limit {ugh!}, but that was the U.S. Congress, not the NTSB.)

Speed differential certainly can be a reason for increased accidents and even death, but in most eBike cases the speed is still too low to cause death if both riders are wearing helmets. Of course pedestrians are at increased risk from all vehicles, electric or otherwise. Let's not forget how fast pedal bikes can go when pedaled by experienced riders (37-50 MPH). Recumbent trike pedal bikes (low, wide and lead with a pedal crank) in my opinion are the most potentially dangerous to pedestrians on paths and trails.

 

[x01660]

Wow! I was looking into Ebikes and was SERIOUSLY considering the Surron....

Glad I read this.

-Z

 

[connie_rider]

Harry, is there a Surron FB site or Forum?
If so, maybe you can find a used one from someone that has a crashed or broken bike...
Or help / instructions / video for changing to a different Controller?

Found this;

Sur-Ron - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

https://www.surronpitstop.com/forum

Log into Facebook

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Ride safe, Ted

I also did a search and found Controller Modules and instructions for a retrofit.
Also has troubleshooting.

surron controller module - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

surron controller module - Search Videos

www.bing.com

surron controller module - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[SethInIllinois]

Yes, and yes.

For the average Joe who can't turn a wrench, it will take a lot of courage to adapt an after market black box to these bikes. It must be a perfect fit and the electrical specs MUST match. Volts, Amps, what's them things? Throttle is electronic (fly by wire). Change and adjust a proximity sensor? Regenerative braking needs to be reprogrammed?

It would have to be a labor of love with deep pockets. I didn't want to start a new hobby.

Oh well, it's on the back burner until I can locate all the specs, manuals, and see what needs to be modified mechanically and electrically.

Have you looked around on ebay? I don't know what model and spec you need, but there appear to be quite a few used Surron controllers for sale.

 

[fartymarty]

I may have this wrong, but aren't there after market controllers available? Not cheap though.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sur...UKEwiPh4X_8N6JAxWp6ckDHS3CIUcQip4GKAF6BAgDEDQ

Harry, is there a Surron FB site or Forum?
If so, maybe you can find a used one from someone that has a crashed or broken bike...
Or help / instructions / video for changing to a different Controller?

Found this;

Sur-Ron - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

https://www.surronpitstop.com/forum

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Ride safe, Ted

I also did a search and found Controller Modules and instructions for a retrofit.
Also has troubleshooting.

surron controller module - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

surron controller module - Search Videos

www.bing.com

surron controller module - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Have you looked around on ebay? I don't know what model and spec you need, but there appear to be quite a few used Surron controllers for sale.

This is why he is "Scary" , the guy makes one post and then goes about his care free week, and lets his minions (that would be us) do his shopping and research for him...we've become his A. I.

 

[fartymarty]

Surron converted to 2 stroke gasoline?...wait... what?

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/UtEsDpGPu3FHGtAp/ (turn sound on, upper right corner speaker symbol)

 

[Jorge]

It's called "delegating".
It's even more effective when the delegating doesn't ask the minions...I mean delegatees

 

[ron203]

It's called "delegating".
It's even more effective when the delegating doesn't ask the minions...I mean delegatees

Jorge, sounds like an allegation, so does that make you an allegator?

 

[fartymarty]

Jorge, sounds like an allegation, so does that make you an allegator?

According to our new incoming COG secretary, the guy is an octopus.

 

[Jorge]

No Ron....more like a croc...

 

[Murph]

I remembered this thread after reading a couple industry reports this morning Brief summary worldwide sales are projected to triple by 2030.

 

[fartymarty]

Future looks pretty good. Not sure about it being triple but then I don't read many industry reports so I'm not sure I'm reading the right ones nor if I even have access to them nor if I did could I properly interpret the info.
I guess it doesn't really matter to me since I don't ride local very often. When they have a road motorcycle that will go 400+ miles per day at 75mph or a street legal dual sport that'll do 300 miles per day at 70 mph then I'll pay attention. I'm fairly certain that I'll age out of motorcycling before that ever becomes to be.

https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/electric-motorcycle-market

 

[Murph]

I don't ride local very often

Asia market is where the sells are. Urban driving, less that 75 miles a day, seldom over 50 mph. They sound like the right tool for the job.

 

[Jorge]

Battery E- bikes will never reach high numbers. Motorcycles are to unaerodynamic (is that a word?).
Motorcycle use to much horsepower to travel at highway speeds to have much range with the weight of battery that's tolerable.
Hydrogen fuel celled ones maybe, but not battery operated ones.

 

[Scary Harry]

Battery E- bikes will never reach high numbers. Motorcycles are to unaerodynamic (is that a word?).
Motorcycle use to much horsepower to travel at highway speeds to have much range with the weight of battery that's tolerable.
Hydrogen fuel celled ones maybe, but not battery operated ones.

Hybrid might work. Even the new Toyota Land-Crusher sports an electric-accelerator and gas-motor with respectable combined EV/gas mileage.
I'm reading about new battery technology being developed. We may get there some day.

 

[Murph]

Battery E- bikes will never reach high numbers

How many would you guess have already been sold?

travel at highway speeds

The market isn't in highway travel ..its in urban commuting